The Phnom Penh Post
An American academic has spent seven years researching the local hostess bar scene, and come up with some surprising findings: the final installment of a three-part series.
Sovan Philong/Phnom Penh Post
Girls working the streets do not have the security or support from fellow workers that bar hostesses have.This is a typical opening question I’d ask people while interviewing for my research on bar work and professional girlfriends in Cambodia (professional girlfriends are women who date multiple western boyfriends in exchange for gifts).
Most often, well-meaning folks offer bits of sympathy, such as 20-year-old Dutch backpacker Annie: “I feel bad for the girls. They work in these bars and look for rich foreign guys because they have no other options. If they did, they would never choose to be here.”
It’s true – there is a tension between “free will” and the larger structural issues that make bar work a viable opportunity for women.
But it is too simplistic to say that the women wouldn’t be there if it were just a matter of other options.
With hostess bar work, there exists a number of freedoms which make it more appealing than other types of work – like street trading or garment factory work. But there are also lots of practical constraints that have to be dealt with.
This article highlights the good bits, the bad bits and the practicalities in between.
Let’s start with the negative.
Aside from the larger structural pressures related to economics, gender roles and required family loyalty, bar work itself comes with downsides. Most of these have to do with unwanted sexual advances, touching, rudeness, lewdness, verbal abuse, racism and sexism from intoxicated customers as well as management.
Chanthy, a 22-year-old bar worker on St 136, explains: “If I like one guy, I play with him … flirt … give massage on his back. But sometimes I don’t like men … and they touch me anyway. I don’t like when they do this. I smile … then I walking away.”
And as Dy, 24, points out: “Some barang men drink a lot! They talk very nasty and talk bad about Khmer girl. I say I not bad girl … but they shouting and spitting … very angry … but I not worry … just ignore …and talking with Khmer girls [instead].’
Many bars also impose a strict system of fines, which means a portion of the girls’ wages are deducted for certain infractions. These fines vary and can be created and enforced by management on a whim.
Sochua, 27, told me the story of how she was once fined $1 for eating one peanut because the Australian manager didn’t like her. Thinking he was joking, she ate another one, and he then charged her $2 – which, out of a $60 per month salary, is the equivalent of an entire day’s pay.
Many bars charge $5 fines for talking on mobile phones, or eating “personal” food while on duty.
I heard stories of bars charging fines for chewing gum, for mixing up drink orders or making drinks improperly, for not wearing name badges, for not cleaning glasses properly, or reversely, for cleaning glasses when they shouldn’t be.
The fine system is used as a form of control over the women, and a way for management to exert authority by punishing them financially.
But other downsides sometimes include unreasonable expectations from managers (eg to live at the bar or come in outside of scheduled hours), excessive alcohol and drug use, and probably the most common workplace hazard – a broken heart – which leads to depression and sometimes even self-harming (cutting arms with razors or “taking too much medicine”).
These last hazards have less to do with the bars themselves, than they do with Cambodia’s complete lack of mental health resources and services.
During times of depression, the women, instead, turn to their friends and co-workers for support and comfort, which points to some of the highlights of working in a bar.
For many women, the bar is a place of freedom, solidarity and support. As many women move on their own from the country to the city, the bar, and their friends there, act as a type of family.
As Jorani, 19, explains: “When I sad about my ex-boyfriend, I cry and cry. I go my bar and my sisters they help me. They make me laughing and I forget boyfriend!”
While in the bars, the girls enjoy the freedoms of movement, of being with their friends, of chatting with different foreigners, of drinking, dancing, learning English and of hearing about the world outside of Cambodia.
They have the freedom to play with their identities, and as Sochua said: “I like my bar because I like to be myself” – whoever that self might happen to be.
Bar life also allows much more freedom than the loneliness and isolation of being confined to the house as a wife or long-term girlfriend – which was a complaint of many women, and the reason many continued working in the bars after promising they wouldn’t while their partners were away.
The ability to work on again, off again in the bars also allows the women great freedom.
Sochua has been working at the same bar for nearly 10 years, and now has a good relationship with the European owner. Many times, she’s taken long breaks from work – to have her children, or to go to the countryside. Knowing that the bar will always be there and that her boss will take her back is a great relief to her, and a form of stability in what is sometimes quite an unstable life.
But there was also a certain network logic which defies the common argument that if there were other options, the women wouldn’t choose hostess bar work.
Tina, 25, was once offered a receptionist job at a small western-run boutique hotel. The hotel promised to quadruple her $50 per month salary and put her through university after she completed her first year at the hotel. The job was easy and the potential career opportunities seemed tremendous.
But after the first night, she walked out, and went back to work at her old bar. When asked why she would pass up what seemed to be such an amazing opportunity, she explained: “[The hotel] was too quiet. No customers ... bar is better ... learn more English ... meet more people.”
According to her logic, the potential for long-term security – which was via meeting people who might “open doors” for her – was greatly decreased at the hotel. The lower monthly salary at the hostess bar was secondary to the opportunity to meet more customers, which could potentially translate to increased economic, romantic, travel and learning opportunities in the future.
Tina found more value in the ability to network with a range of potentially useful people, than in pursuing a potentially unuseful long-drawn-out academic path.
Aside from this network logic, she also enjoyed the excitement, entertainment, social and educational aspects and freedoms of bar life.
So while there are plenty of negative aspects to working in hostess bars, the young women find them useful in different ways. Bar work tends to be seen as a means to an end, and a place of opportunity.
For professional girlfriends, bars offer unlimited networking possibilities which leads to potential future security.
Rather than being viewed as victims who are trapped in oppressive jobs and have no control over their lives, the plethora of young women I spoke to instead revealed they are hard-working mothers and daughters, loyal employees, dedicated girlfriends and wives and creative young women who are pulling up their bootstraps and taking on this world, despite all those who doubt them or try to get in their way.
And the bar is often the first stop on their journey.
Author Bio:
Dr Heidi Hoefinger has been researching the hostess bar scene in Phnom Penh since 2003. She received her PhD from Goldsmiths, University of London, and is author of upcoming book titled Sex, Love and Money in Cambodia (Routledge 2013).
Having lived in Phnom Penh for a couple of years and visited several times in the past 7 years, I've met a number of these bar girls and their 'boyfriends'. I still fail to see how they distinguish themselves from prostitutes. Being given gifts still equates to being given money. I think the difference in how they 'see themselves' distinct from prostitutes actually relates to what they hope for in the future, namely marriage to a Barang. I've seen young lads enjoy, what is to them, a fun night of frivolry, offered freely by bar girls. These girls then ceaselessly harrass them, phoning, texting, visiting. They bring their mothers and other family members to visit, threatening the guys with complaints that they have wrecked their daughters chances of marriage now they've 'stolen' her virginity. Naive young travellers often come close to believing these stories, giving all sorts of compensation and nearly succumbing to the actual motive, marriage. This can go on for weeks, until some kind expat or local points out that, in fact, the 'innocent' Khmer girl has been offering her wares for several years, and he's actually just the latest in a long line of sexual conquests. The truth is illusive in Cambodia and I certainly wouldn't be taking these girls you've interviewed at face value. They are no more innocent victims than the Cambodian PM is democratically elected. It's a society based on honour; increasingly, honour is linked to attainment of wealth. Surrounded by money-hungry Chinese, Vietnamese, Thais, reliant upon generous donations of development funding for 30 years and visited by wealthy Europeans, Americans and others, it's hardly surprising Khmer people see wealth as an ultimate goal. In general, Khmers don't really care whether this monetary honour is gained through nefarious means, sex, bribery, corruption, or crime. Hell, 99.9% of the extremely wealthy elite would be hard-pressed to offer a single example of honestly earned financial gains. This articles seems to be primarily written from an outsiders perspective, coloured by imported beliefs towards 'right and wrong' and behavioural norms. Logical, given the author is hardly a Khmer. WOuld have been far more valuable had it investigated the ways in which local beliefs colour the importation of values, particularly towards selling oneself (monetary gain) for sex with the aim of marriage (status and honour); which, no matter how you dress it up, is exactly what these bar girls are doing.
Helenb
on May 16, 2012
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I appreciated her work to help us to understand the issue. Her time is worth and shall have been much appreciated. No fact finding is final for any topic. It might have been easy to turn against her work from our folks.
On one part of hers, it might be a bit difficult to agree with her explanation to match the choice of so-called "Prof Girlfriend" with culture of Cambodia. For example, taking "Milk fee" for the marriage it is culture, but may not be the same as our hostess at the bar or Prof Gildfriend of getting benefit with any appropriate reason they have. Dr. Heidi may trying to reason and compare banana with oranges.
With respect.
L SORN
On one part of hers, it might be a bit difficult to agree with her explanation to match the choice of so-called "Prof Girlfriend" with culture of Cambodia. For example, taking "Milk fee" for the marriage it is culture, but may not be the same as our hostess at the bar or Prof Gildfriend of getting benefit with any appropriate reason they have. Dr. Heidi may trying to reason and compare banana with oranges.
With respect.
L SORN
@ smart cute guy\
What do you work for this chick?
You are portraying exactly the kind of blind sweeping generalizations that she is trying to dispel.
typical of people on the net. Read a little and try to build up your ego.
Naturally some are of that ilk...but not all.
You are exactly the type of person Heidi is trying to educate-
I wonder what you would be like if you were a impoverished Cambodian...or an old lonely guy. The latter will be your destiny.
Lets see whay u say then
What do you work for this chick?
You are portraying exactly the kind of blind sweeping generalizations that she is trying to dispel.
typical of people on the net. Read a little and try to build up your ego.
Naturally some are of that ilk...but not all.
You are exactly the type of person Heidi is trying to educate-
I wonder what you would be like if you were a impoverished Cambodian...or an old lonely guy. The latter will be your destiny.
Lets see whay u say then
These girls are nothing but low class hookers.
The Western men are nothing but scumbags, abusers or jerks.
What the bar girls really want:
- Money
- Gifts
- Free trips, food, drinks, drugs, etc...
- Sex
What the Western men really want:
- Sex
- Translation, contacts
- Directions in and around cities, country...
Conclusion: They are both bad people. The end. And I didn't even have to spend 7 minutes doing the research.
The Western men are nothing but scumbags, abusers or jerks.
What the bar girls really want:
- Money
- Gifts
- Free trips, food, drinks, drugs, etc...
- Sex
What the Western men really want:
- Sex
- Translation, contacts
- Directions in and around cities, country...
Conclusion: They are both bad people. The end. And I didn't even have to spend 7 minutes doing the research.
@Kim Hong
She only needs a work permit if she plans to publish in a peer reviewed scholarly Journal or book.
When we read a study like hers- we need to feel we have no idea if it was written by a man or a woman. Louise Brown succeeds in that. It seems Dr H fell in love with her research subjects- many of their responses seem to portray them as victims with a few responses on the other side of the fence thrown in for good measure.
I wonder how much actual time she actually spent in Cambodia
She only needs a work permit if she plans to publish in a peer reviewed scholarly Journal or book.
When we read a study like hers- we need to feel we have no idea if it was written by a man or a woman. Louise Brown succeeds in that. It seems Dr H fell in love with her research subjects- many of their responses seem to portray them as victims with a few responses on the other side of the fence thrown in for good measure.
I wonder how much actual time she actually spent in Cambodia
@ Heidi
You said,
“The point has been to share the voices of some of the women themselves—whose perspectives are so often left out,”
I think their perspectives can only matter if they are controlled for accuracy- and derived from statistical analysis. Most of the “voices” in your work sound very much like they come directly from the “Cultural Cannon” that seeks to protect the transgressor and avoid blame/ guilt/embarrassment or worse a compendium of stereotypical answers that support the mainstream accepted view. It becomes tedious for the reader to try to discern between the affective and referential information contained in your respondent’s comments.
As a participant observer how where you able to ascertain that you were being told the truth? Did you learn to speak the language with any degree of proficiency? If you did that and sat in a dark corner, invisible as it where, you might have found some of your informants’ statements to be less than sincere.
I think when you control for their general lack of education and experience it may become clear to you that many live in a strange and confusing cultural amalgam in which they find it not only easy but also necessary to dispose of their traditional values- the majority of Cambodian woman would choose almost anything else, rather than engaging in the phenomenon that you studied. Naturally there are exceptions in which the poverty is so intense that no other option exists.
Additionally-
Probably- a regional analysis of the subject might have been more proper using various other countries- focusing solely on Cambodia perhaps does more disservice to the country than good. Whitewashing the industry with terms like, “professional girlfriend” probably doesn’t help either.
I find it odd that you offered to give half the money from a potential award to one of your research subjects. I would like to see some ideas regarding sustainable development. Too many NGO’s come in- throw some money around, have some fun, and then…..they just leave.
If you want to empower these people perhaps you should read Seanglim Bit,
“Cambodian Culture places great importance on upholding rigorously determined standards of behavior for members of society, yet simultaneously tolerates deviant behavior by those who violate social norms without serious consequence………..Cambodia today is in need of self-sustaining economic growth…..long term individual success [is] given little respect, while considerable ingenuity in exploiting black market opportunities for quick profits is widespread”
With a Cambodian cultural paradigm such as this aren’t you simply attempting to legitimize another black market illegal opportunity by suggesting these women are somehow “empowered” and that they should have the right to engage in criminal acts?
Field work is dangerous. Societies have their own leveling mechanisms- the disruption of which oftentimes has unforeseeable consequences.
Saveros Pou saw the degradation of cultural values in the 17th century as, a decline that altered the collective acceptance of cultural values” (Chandler 1983-89)
Please try to consider that the subjective nature of your work may be doing just that.
You said,
“The point has been to share the voices of some of the women themselves—whose perspectives are so often left out,”
I think their perspectives can only matter if they are controlled for accuracy- and derived from statistical analysis. Most of the “voices” in your work sound very much like they come directly from the “Cultural Cannon” that seeks to protect the transgressor and avoid blame/ guilt/embarrassment or worse a compendium of stereotypical answers that support the mainstream accepted view. It becomes tedious for the reader to try to discern between the affective and referential information contained in your respondent’s comments.
As a participant observer how where you able to ascertain that you were being told the truth? Did you learn to speak the language with any degree of proficiency? If you did that and sat in a dark corner, invisible as it where, you might have found some of your informants’ statements to be less than sincere.
I think when you control for their general lack of education and experience it may become clear to you that many live in a strange and confusing cultural amalgam in which they find it not only easy but also necessary to dispose of their traditional values- the majority of Cambodian woman would choose almost anything else, rather than engaging in the phenomenon that you studied. Naturally there are exceptions in which the poverty is so intense that no other option exists.
Additionally-
Probably- a regional analysis of the subject might have been more proper using various other countries- focusing solely on Cambodia perhaps does more disservice to the country than good. Whitewashing the industry with terms like, “professional girlfriend” probably doesn’t help either.
I find it odd that you offered to give half the money from a potential award to one of your research subjects. I would like to see some ideas regarding sustainable development. Too many NGO’s come in- throw some money around, have some fun, and then…..they just leave.
If you want to empower these people perhaps you should read Seanglim Bit,
“Cambodian Culture places great importance on upholding rigorously determined standards of behavior for members of society, yet simultaneously tolerates deviant behavior by those who violate social norms without serious consequence………..Cambodia today is in need of self-sustaining economic growth…..long term individual success [is] given little respect, while considerable ingenuity in exploiting black market opportunities for quick profits is widespread”
With a Cambodian cultural paradigm such as this aren’t you simply attempting to legitimize another black market illegal opportunity by suggesting these women are somehow “empowered” and that they should have the right to engage in criminal acts?
Field work is dangerous. Societies have their own leveling mechanisms- the disruption of which oftentimes has unforeseeable consequences.
Saveros Pou saw the degradation of cultural values in the 17th century as, a decline that altered the collective acceptance of cultural values” (Chandler 1983-89)
Please try to consider that the subjective nature of your work may be doing just that.
Yes, you are right in most part regarding to those professional girlfriends and female bar workers' situations and personality, as money makes them very vulnerable. However I would like to point out that there is no "Free Will" has something to do with all those unpleasant works. Only money creates their "free will" to conduct this type of jobs. I believe that if those girls can afford their livings, they would rather not choose that type of "Free Will" exchanging with "Freedom". Cultural diversity defines different forms of freedom. In Cambodia we value more on family value and reputation than Western freedom 's concept.
First part of response:
This response is lengthy and separated into two parts, but I am responding to several comments (thanks for noticing that Pat, and for your thoughtful words!) To Kimhong and Dr Chamroeun: In terms of the most exploitative aspects of the sexual landscape in Cambodia such as father-daughter rape, incest, bauk (gang rape), pedophilia, virginity buying from adolescents, and ‘human trafficking’, I’d like to turn your attention to the work of Eleanor Browne (funded by the IOM)—as just one example of many--which clearly states that the majority of these offenses are ‘home grown’ and committed by Cambodians.
The media tends to make most visible the westerner-committed cases of pedophilia and ‘trafficking’, (and ignore or brush over the ‘home grown’ cases) which is possibly why the government has created a discriminatory law against western men over 50 which prevents them from marrying Khmer women—-unless they have a certain level of income every month—-which seems to counteract the very purpose of the law in the first place and reiterates the idea that ‘money talks’ in Cambodia. One could ask: is this law in any way curbing these human rights abuses and crimes related to pedophilia and coerced ‘human trafficking’ or are they purely discriminating against the majority of older less wealthy western men, and the consensual relationships they form with their Cambodian partners?
Another point that requires emphasis is that these human rights abuses and crimes such as pedophilia and coerced ‘human trafficking’ cannot and must not be conflated with the consensual commercial sex between adults. This conflation is not only a problem within the Cambodian rhetoric around ‘human traffic’ but an international one. Consensual commercial sex and forced sex against someone’s will are not the same thing. And they shouldn’t be discussed as such.
But your comments and those of many others responding on all three of these articles reveal that the specific point of this research is not being fully understood. My research is not about ‘human trafficking’, or these other exploitative aspects of the sexual landscape there. Stories of rape and (many times agreed-upon) virginity selling surfaced as I conducted years of ethnographic research with women who work in bars, but those experiences were by no means shared by all women I spent time with, nor were they the focus of the research.
The main focus was on the hostess bar sector that exists within the much larger entertainment industry (which also includes beer gardens and karaoke venues). The term ‘entertainment industry’ is more appropriate than ‘sex industry’ since many women who work in bars, beer gardens and karaoke venues are still virgins and/or do not identify as sex workers at all.
This response is lengthy and separated into two parts, but I am responding to several comments (thanks for noticing that Pat, and for your thoughtful words!) To Kimhong and Dr Chamroeun: In terms of the most exploitative aspects of the sexual landscape in Cambodia such as father-daughter rape, incest, bauk (gang rape), pedophilia, virginity buying from adolescents, and ‘human trafficking’, I’d like to turn your attention to the work of Eleanor Browne (funded by the IOM)—as just one example of many--which clearly states that the majority of these offenses are ‘home grown’ and committed by Cambodians.
The media tends to make most visible the westerner-committed cases of pedophilia and ‘trafficking’, (and ignore or brush over the ‘home grown’ cases) which is possibly why the government has created a discriminatory law against western men over 50 which prevents them from marrying Khmer women—-unless they have a certain level of income every month—-which seems to counteract the very purpose of the law in the first place and reiterates the idea that ‘money talks’ in Cambodia. One could ask: is this law in any way curbing these human rights abuses and crimes related to pedophilia and coerced ‘human trafficking’ or are they purely discriminating against the majority of older less wealthy western men, and the consensual relationships they form with their Cambodian partners?
Another point that requires emphasis is that these human rights abuses and crimes such as pedophilia and coerced ‘human trafficking’ cannot and must not be conflated with the consensual commercial sex between adults. This conflation is not only a problem within the Cambodian rhetoric around ‘human traffic’ but an international one. Consensual commercial sex and forced sex against someone’s will are not the same thing. And they shouldn’t be discussed as such.
But your comments and those of many others responding on all three of these articles reveal that the specific point of this research is not being fully understood. My research is not about ‘human trafficking’, or these other exploitative aspects of the sexual landscape there. Stories of rape and (many times agreed-upon) virginity selling surfaced as I conducted years of ethnographic research with women who work in bars, but those experiences were by no means shared by all women I spent time with, nor were they the focus of the research.
The main focus was on the hostess bar sector that exists within the much larger entertainment industry (which also includes beer gardens and karaoke venues). The term ‘entertainment industry’ is more appropriate than ‘sex industry’ since many women who work in bars, beer gardens and karaoke venues are still virgins and/or do not identify as sex workers at all.
Response continued:
Years of ethnographic research--which means spending day and night with the women in their homes, with their families in the provinces, and out in the bars every evening—revealed that nearly all the women who I spent time who work in bars and date foreign men are offended by being referred to as sex workers, as they don’t engage in ‘sex-for-cash’ exchanges but more nuanced and complicated transactional relationships where they benefit materially in the form of gifts, school tuition, rent, clothes, etc. They view the relationships with their foreign partners as ‘real’—and not commercial.
My goal is to shift the discourse around ‘professional girlfriends’ and their western boyfriends away from the sex work framework altogether (thus the title of the first article: Moving Beyond Sex Work). I use the definition of ‘professional’ which means ‘having or showing great skill in something’ and ‘doing something as a means to support one’s livelihood’. It is not used here to refer to ‘work’ (or ‘sex work’ more specifically). These young women are ‘skilled’ at being girlfriends, and they tend to have more than one boyfriend to protect themselves from losses when they are sometimes suddenly abandoned.
The lines are sometimes blurry, and the objective is not to try and pinpoint who is a professional girlfriend, who is a sex worker, who is having commercial sex, or who is engaged in materially beneficial transactional sex. Identities and behaviors are fluid, and many people sometimes move between all categories and actions. What my research reveals instead, is that:
1) many girls who work in hostess bars do not identify as ‘prostitutes’, ‘broken women’, or ‘victims’
2) they have materially beneficial relationships with westerners in the hopes of improving their situations and supporting their families
3) those relationships are considered ‘real’ and not commercial,
4) the boyfriends are sometimes viewed as ‘patrons’ and when the women accumulate extra wealth and status from those relationships, the women themselves become patrons, distributing that wealth and status back to their families,
5) the bars themselves are places of both restrictions but also freedoms that the women exploit and find useful in different ways,
6) amidst huge structural constraints like gender stereotypes and double standards, strict social codes for women, mandatory familial obligation, and pervasive sexual and domestic violence, they are trying to find pleasure and happiness in ways that they can,
7) and finally, they don’t want to be looked down upon, but instead treated like human beings and respected for the decisions they make under very difficult circumstances—and this goes for women who do identify as sex workers as well.
Years of ethnographic research--which means spending day and night with the women in their homes, with their families in the provinces, and out in the bars every evening—revealed that nearly all the women who I spent time who work in bars and date foreign men are offended by being referred to as sex workers, as they don’t engage in ‘sex-for-cash’ exchanges but more nuanced and complicated transactional relationships where they benefit materially in the form of gifts, school tuition, rent, clothes, etc. They view the relationships with their foreign partners as ‘real’—and not commercial.
My goal is to shift the discourse around ‘professional girlfriends’ and their western boyfriends away from the sex work framework altogether (thus the title of the first article: Moving Beyond Sex Work). I use the definition of ‘professional’ which means ‘having or showing great skill in something’ and ‘doing something as a means to support one’s livelihood’. It is not used here to refer to ‘work’ (or ‘sex work’ more specifically). These young women are ‘skilled’ at being girlfriends, and they tend to have more than one boyfriend to protect themselves from losses when they are sometimes suddenly abandoned.
The lines are sometimes blurry, and the objective is not to try and pinpoint who is a professional girlfriend, who is a sex worker, who is having commercial sex, or who is engaged in materially beneficial transactional sex. Identities and behaviors are fluid, and many people sometimes move between all categories and actions. What my research reveals instead, is that:
1) many girls who work in hostess bars do not identify as ‘prostitutes’, ‘broken women’, or ‘victims’
2) they have materially beneficial relationships with westerners in the hopes of improving their situations and supporting their families
3) those relationships are considered ‘real’ and not commercial,
4) the boyfriends are sometimes viewed as ‘patrons’ and when the women accumulate extra wealth and status from those relationships, the women themselves become patrons, distributing that wealth and status back to their families,
5) the bars themselves are places of both restrictions but also freedoms that the women exploit and find useful in different ways,
6) amidst huge structural constraints like gender stereotypes and double standards, strict social codes for women, mandatory familial obligation, and pervasive sexual and domestic violence, they are trying to find pleasure and happiness in ways that they can,
7) and finally, they don’t want to be looked down upon, but instead treated like human beings and respected for the decisions they make under very difficult circumstances—and this goes for women who do identify as sex workers as well.
Few, if any, women who work in foreigner run bars are forced or coerced into doing anything. Essentially, even though they get a salary (which is really just a bit of pocket money), most of these women are working for themselves. They go with whoever they want, when they want at the price they want.If that's not some sort of freedom I don't know what is.
I'd really like to see someone research the sex bar/brothel/club/karaoke industry that is run by Khmer, Chinese, Thai and Vietnamese business men and women. That would make a really interesting read if you're into, exploitation, debt slavery, physical and emotional abuse, lack of education, lack of freedom, lack of choice, health risks and so on and so on!
If you ask me the Cambodian government cares not one jot about the people at the bottom of the heap. We all know it so lets just say it, this government has embezzled 100 s of millions of dollars (possibly billions) that was originally ear-marked for clinics, schools, hospitals, colleges, and such-like which in the long run would have created jobs and opportunity for it's youth, this is the real crime.
I'd really like to see someone research the sex bar/brothel/club/karaoke industry that is run by Khmer, Chinese, Thai and Vietnamese business men and women. That would make a really interesting read if you're into, exploitation, debt slavery, physical and emotional abuse, lack of education, lack of freedom, lack of choice, health risks and so on and so on!
If you ask me the Cambodian government cares not one jot about the people at the bottom of the heap. We all know it so lets just say it, this government has embezzled 100 s of millions of dollars (possibly billions) that was originally ear-marked for clinics, schools, hospitals, colleges, and such-like which in the long run would have created jobs and opportunity for it's youth, this is the real crime.
Dr. Hoefinger: How come you spent seven years in our country only to come up with an obviously pseudo-scientific study filled with banalities that defy any description? Who provided you with the funds for your “humanitarian work” at the bar level? And how did you manage to get a work permit - if at all - to conduct such an unwelcome and highly disturbing whitewash of Phnom Penh's sex-industry?
Your findings have very little to do with Cambodia. You could have found exactly the same results in neighboring Thailand (may I suggest mafia-controlled Pattaya or downtown Bangkok?). No need to promote Cambodian sex-workers to potential sugar-daddies, or vice versa. As Dr. Chamroeun pointed out, the highly lucrative flesh-trade targeting foreigners in Cambodia is controlled by Westerners and illegal.
May I remind you on the fact that our government last year issued a law that forbid foreigners over the age of fifty to marry Cambodian women? The reason for this was not the ugly picture these stranded men with “professional girlfriends” in their arms might leave on our society but because so many of those sugar-daddies turned out to be involved in human trafficking and prostitution-rings!
Your findings have very little to do with Cambodia. You could have found exactly the same results in neighboring Thailand (may I suggest mafia-controlled Pattaya or downtown Bangkok?). No need to promote Cambodian sex-workers to potential sugar-daddies, or vice versa. As Dr. Chamroeun pointed out, the highly lucrative flesh-trade targeting foreigners in Cambodia is controlled by Westerners and illegal.
May I remind you on the fact that our government last year issued a law that forbid foreigners over the age of fifty to marry Cambodian women? The reason for this was not the ugly picture these stranded men with “professional girlfriends” in their arms might leave on our society but because so many of those sugar-daddies turned out to be involved in human trafficking and prostitution-rings!
Joejoe ive been following all the comments on all three articles too because this debate is long overdue in Cambodia and you are clearly not seeing what Heidi is doing if you think her responses are empty. Shes obviously not rebuttalling each and every comment people are making. Shes grouping her answers to cover the two main running themes that dominate the negative responses: the haters who don’t like the women, western men, their complicated relationships, and bar work itself—and the victimizers who view all the girls as damaged. People making positive comments all totally recognize the phenomenon that Heidi is talking about with professional girlfriends and barang boyfriends and they accept that she is trying to humanize them. She isn’t judging the people or the lifestyle or the work as good or bad. She’s just saying what she’s learned after all those years of talking to people. And I think her responses are thoughtful and earnest and she obviously cares a lot about the people she’s talking about.
Why is it that so many people are repulsed by the thought of mostly older unattached men trying to recapture some excitement through the attentions of younger attractive women who are perfectly willing to provide a service for a fee. If you all are lucky enough to have been blessed with a long happy and healthy love life, then more power to you. And if you have never had to do some unpleasant things to earn a living, then again, more power to you.
But sadly we are all no so fortunate. Not all of us are not able to breeze through life with good looks, health and money. If we choose to seek each other out to fulfill our needs, who are you to look down you nose at us.
Maybe one day you will be on the other side of things.
But sadly we are all no so fortunate. Not all of us are not able to breeze through life with good looks, health and money. If we choose to seek each other out to fulfill our needs, who are you to look down you nose at us.
Maybe one day you will be on the other side of things.
'Many of these comments play precisely into the stereotypes I’m referring to in this 3-part series. The point has been to share the voices of some of the women themselves—whose perspectives are so often left out,' the Dr says.
Quite. Almost all these comments ignore the women's perspectives and go in, guns blazing with the standard Christo-feminist prejudice.
Quite. Almost all these comments ignore the women's perspectives and go in, guns blazing with the standard Christo-feminist prejudice.
The immediate satisfaction with working in the bars is no doubt offset by the future health, personal safety and livelihoods (unplanned children) concerns these women will face in the future which will render them poorer than when they started.
It is a big gamble, to assume a Western man will be there to support her in the future. I'd like to see a study on the proportion of monogamous relationships which last more than five years.
It is a big gamble, to assume a Western man will be there to support her in the future. I'd like to see a study on the proportion of monogamous relationships which last more than five years.
Heidi, if you're going to bother responding at all, respond to the actual points. Your message was empty. I've been following the comments left on your three articles and some are obvious nonsense, but some people have made very logical rebuttals and I don't see you responding to them. Its one thing to not respond at all; it is another to respond and put nothing of substance in that response.
I greatly appreciate the comments by ‘Betty Friedan’ (are you a ghost who has been resurrected from the dead? Or an abolitionist radical feminist who is curiously appropriating her name?!) because they perfectly illustrate why ethnographic research like my own is so utterly important and urgent. Firstly, they continue to highlight the very damaging stereotypes that people propagate about young Cambodian women, which ultimately deprive them of their agency to make decisions about what type of work to do, or what type of relationship they might want to form. Secondly, they paint all local-foreign relationships that transpire in bars as exploitative and/or commercial, which is not always the case, and a clearly racist and classist assumption that might be offensive to people involved in non-commercial relationships. Thirdly, and most detrimentally, they ignore the voices of the women themselves—yet another move to deny their agency, infantilize them, debilitate them into sad pitiable pawns so that ‘First World’ (to borrow ‘Betty Friedans’ outdated term) neo-colonialist saviours can make it their mission to rescue these 'helpless victims' who are presumed to be so innately unable to help themselves.
There isn’t any one ‘truth’ about young women’s lives in Cambodia, or transnational relationships that take place there. I’ll repeat, yet again: there are many truths and experiences—some of which are ‘sad and exploitative’ and many others which are pleasurable and empowering. People don’t become empowered in isolation. They become empowered through networks and solidarity with other people. In the case of Cambodia, these young women use their networks within bar girl subculture, and their networks with foreigners to find such empowerment and ‘save' themselves—despite the plethora of structural constraints they are up against. Perhaps before insisting on pushing forward these paternalistic views about Cambodian women, people should start listening to them instead, and take seriously what they have to say.
There isn’t any one ‘truth’ about young women’s lives in Cambodia, or transnational relationships that take place there. I’ll repeat, yet again: there are many truths and experiences—some of which are ‘sad and exploitative’ and many others which are pleasurable and empowering. People don’t become empowered in isolation. They become empowered through networks and solidarity with other people. In the case of Cambodia, these young women use their networks within bar girl subculture, and their networks with foreigners to find such empowerment and ‘save' themselves—despite the plethora of structural constraints they are up against. Perhaps before insisting on pushing forward these paternalistic views about Cambodian women, people should start listening to them instead, and take seriously what they have to say.
Betty - "the entire industry is inherently exploitative and sad". I am glad you did a thorough research as well. But do you mean the entire industry in Cambodia, in South East Asia or worldwide? Cos this is quite a broad statement or should we say huge uninformed generalisation ? And by the way negative homophobic metaphor such as "taking it up the £$%" really doesnt help ... Finally, conflating your idea of western feminism with realities of cambodian women is plain racist - "just lying there and taking it up the .." ...Wow way to dismiss the choice - however limited - of these women.
Betty Friedman: YOUR comments reeks of first world privilege where one with a middle-class background assigns victim-hood on women without actually talking to them and finding out what they think of their situation. Had you truly followed Dr. Hoefinger's work, you would know that she used ethnographic research methodology and lived among the women, learning and observing what they feel and think about their lives. Cambodia is filled with INGO's well funded by rich first world countries, but there are not enough avenues for grass-roots work and perspectives that give voice to what entertainment workers want from their work situations.
Dr. Heidi: Which bar will you be working at when you return to Cambodia? You will be working at one, right? I mean, I can't see why you wouldn't want to involve yourself in work like this when you've discovered that it is so self-empowering and personally rewarding for all the Khmer girls you've interviewed. Why bother with your academic career when you can hang around at a bar and hope a rich tourist or expat takes you out and buys you presents in exchange for sex? Or is this just more First-World privilege (akin to sex tourism): barangs take advantage of their economic desperation and claim they are doing a good deed by paying them, and you take advantage of them to write your asinine book, which wouldn't receive nearly as much publicity if it told the truth - that sex workers do what they do out of desperation, and the entire industry is inherently exploitative and sad? Feminism really has come a long way: from fighting patriarchy to just lying down and taking it in the collective @*#& and pretending it's empowerment. Congratulations.
A book condoning foreigner-controlled sex-trade in Cambodia is about the least wanted publicity that our Kingdom needs. Calling sex-workers "Professional Girlfriends" doesn't help either; it only indicates the existence of a professionally-run sex industry in our country. The academic researcher had better spent her time exploring and defacing the masterminds, with their background and connections, behind this lucrative business than to find timeworn excuses for "poor" girls to engage in the flesh-trade. And, just to remind you, prostitution is still illegal in the Kingdom.
Typical of the men to feel like they are the victims. Westerners take advantage of a culture that observes deference within society, whether it is with a work colleague, a careless road user or a girl that works in a bar, they are indifferent as long as their opinions, thoughts and ideas are accepted. This country is full to the brim of people trying to impose their social values on a culture that quite frankly is yet to fully comprehend the concepts and half truths that are being imposed on them. Money and power corrupts in so many ways out here, that it is impossible for most to understand the severity and desperation that many face. A working woman's level of endurance in the face of such stigmas defy comprehension, it is exactly their own selflessness and concern for family that enables them to endure such ignorance. A Wilde man said that every saint has a past and every sinner has a future. No one should be denied a second chance and respect is something you should give, and the women out here deserve a whole lot more.
great article! I worked many years as a male sex worker in different European countries and people would never get that the sometimes chaotic lifestyle or irregular income was a price i accepted to pay for the freedom i needed. For some of us, working in an office or any 9 to 5 jobs is an attack on our freedom that is too high to pay. I am obviously not comparing my European escorting days to the lives of these women, but as i did, they have made a choice and might even be happier than their sisters in factories or fields. Every choice has its costs but i applaud their courage and their strength of character to live their life the way they chose.
Many of these comments play precisely into the stereotypes I’m referring to in this 3-part series. The point has been to share the voices of some of the women themselves—whose perspectives are so often left out. There are a diversity of experiences within bar work, and within transnational relationships between Cambodian women and western men. Not all Cambodian women are greedy and manipulative. Not all western men are exploiters (or victims). Not all relationships are commercial or unauthentic. Nor are they all perfect with fairy tale endings. And not all women who work in bars and/or exchange sex for gifts or money feel exploited, damaged, traumatized and victimized. And if and when they do or are, they can still feel empowered and in control of their worlds in different ways. The point has been to try to break down some of those very tired stereotypes which portray the bars, the women, the men and the relationships in very ‘black and white’ terms. Black and white together make grey, and the goal has been to shed some light on that very complicated grey area.
The author invented the term "Professional Girlfriends", a strange oxymoron, to describe nothing better than prostitutes. She should have used "Sex Workers" instead, which would be much more accurate and honest. You do neither need a PhD nor conduct a study for seven years to understand the greed and materialistic motives that drives those girls' lives.
These women are being exploited whether they feel so or not. Maybe they feel they have a better chance for financial or social success working as a prostitute as compared to a garment worker or street vendor, but they are comparing rotten apples to rotten oranges.
I try not to go to any bars where I know the owners to be these exploiters. I know of one popular bar that only hires foreign young ladies so there is less of a chance their fathers/brothers/uncles may ever show up to pay much earned retribution to corrupt or abusive employers.
I try not to go to any bars where I know the owners to be these exploiters. I know of one popular bar that only hires foreign young ladies so there is less of a chance their fathers/brothers/uncles may ever show up to pay much earned retribution to corrupt or abusive employers.
If you go to any country in the world there are prostitutes who choose this lifestyle. Some because of limited opportunities, but some have no ambition. The more opportunities though and the less you would see so many bar girls so desperate to sell themselves in this way.
I like how the researcher automatically believes the women when they say they are "sad" about their "ex-boyfriend" not, say, lost revenue from a an ex-client? I'm not against bar work and don't think the women who work there are bad people, but did your research ever make you consider the possibility that the women you interviewed act like its an actual relationship to save face, not because they believe it or feel real emotions about it?
No matter how you slice it, this is merely a form of escort service at best and legalized prostitution at worst. It exposes the women who work in it to many dangers in the hope of nabbing a man who, if she is lucky, isn't a complete jerk. Anyone who advocates it as a viable occupation is clearly not honestly asking the question, "Would I want *my* daughter doing it?"
